This interview is originally published in Not Guilty fanzine, issue 3. Rival Mob photos by Danielle Parsons, and Reid Haithcock.
Originally published in Chiller Than Most fanzine, issue 2 (2014).
Owen Black: I’ve been asked to write something about the band and the era during which our North End Jammin’ rehearsal tape was recorded. This was a great time for Jaguarz. Our lineup had solidified with the addition of one of my favorite people, Rich Perusi, on drums. Jeff Pickett was our guitarist (from jump) and Steve St. Germain a/k/a Steb, singer of the Straight Edge powerhouse The First Step, was our bass player. By my count that is three lead singers in the band; Rich sang for The Dedication and Sex Positions before and after his career with Stop And Think — a choice draft pick for sure. We had a new practice space in Boston’s North End. Three members of the band were pursuing scholarship at the prestigious Boston University. We were playing out as often as possible. We were eating and living well.
As far as being the most underrated Lockin’ Out band, I don’t know what to say. We adhered to an old school ethic. We didn’t have a website because Straight Ahead didn’t have a website. We bonded often over endless plates of chow in the Warren Towers cafeteria. We maintained a solid crew of moshers who supported us at shows. I’d shout them all out but they know who they are. It was the golden era of Lockin’ Out, and I have endless gratitude for everything that entails.
2004 was only our second year of existence, and we played our last show in 2005. Were we writing for a 12″ EP titled “What’s That Noise?”? Maybe. Did we have a bunch of new songs? Yes. My favorite ones were called “Bad Things,” “Better Days,” and “An Hour of Wolves.” The Wolves joint was going to make “Survival” sound like Crippled Youth jamming on Playskool instruments. A 12-minute dirge was planned for side B. Some of these songs used to exist on my hard drive in various stages of completion, but they’ve sadly been lost. A few years ago Steve hit me up and suggested we record them, but we never did. Oh well.
This rehearsal, I believe, was in preparation for a jaunt down south to Virginia and back during our spring break and boy, how I wish it could have lasted forever. We had a new intro in our playbook, affectionately called “TNT” due to its explosive mosh demands, and partially due to its similarity to a certain AC/DC tune. AC/DC is a rock ‘n roll band, I don’t know if you’ve heard of them, but maybe look into their catalogue or peek behind the music. They’ve written a few riffs over the years, and suffered a tragic loss of their first lead singer, Bon Scott. We were also practicing a segment of a song by another rock band that exists outside of the hardcore realm, Smashing Pumpkins. They are from Chicago, the city where I was born, and also lost a band member, Jimmy Chamberlain, years ago. RIP to these influential musicians. But I don’t mean to get all heavy on you right now. “Cherub Rock” is a real vibey song and we jammed that intro straight into our hit “Survival” during our set on this tape. We never played a cover for more than a few shows, though, so I’m really glad this was captured because unless you were in that Brick, New Jersey D.A.V. hall on our spring break tour, the full effect of this jam would be attainable only at the end of, nay, beyond, a pipe dream tunnel that few of you would ever emerge healthily from. I’m not even sure I have. Let me just add that Get Real covered “Blind” by KoRn at this show so cheers to the ’90s.
Demo tapes that will be turning 15 this year. Part II.
Review originally published in Look Beyond fanzine.
Artwork by Kenneth Fontaine
An in-depth analysis of the history of Mental, interview with Ambrose Nzams and Dylan Chadwick / Part II.
This interview originally published in Chiller Than Most fanzine, issue 5 (2017). Photos by Dylan Chadwick, Patrycja Gagan, Start Today fanzine, Mike the mosher, Marlon, Chiller Than Most fanzine.
CTM: At that time the Mental Lp got lots of negative criticism. What do you think was the reason for that?
Dylan: I vaguely remember it getting criticized, but by that point I was tuning out all the negative stuff around them, so I don’t really know. I love that album personally, and saw them a whole lot on the tour they did to promote it. I love that they wrote an LP that was entirely new material and loved the more introspective nature of the lyrics. The big comparison point I remember hearing is that it was “really Quicksand-esque” which sounded really cool at the time because it just wasn’t the type of band you’d expect Mental to be compared to. It would be kind of ironic if the same people who always criticized Mental for not being “serious” enough went on to criticize them for writing more “serious” music, but I bet that happened because so many hardcore fans have such a narrow view towards music, rock and punk and all that.
Ambrose: I can’t really say what it was really like ’cause I was 15 when it came out, but I definitely dismissed it because my peers and elders did. I mean the obvious reason for the backlash would be like the more “adult” vibe of the record; if you got into Mental because you mistakenly perceived it as something goofy and goofy alone then you’d be let down. I would also say that time’s were just changing: the end of Posi Numbers, the crew stuff, “Mental Broke Edge”, the real beginnings of social media, “Desperate Times”, etc. And, call me out if this is a faulty hypothesis, but it feels like back then roasting something or hating on something was more prevalent, or at least more public. If I was being foolish and naively positive, I’d say people were maybe more passionate, but in reality, people just wanted to put people down and could do so easier in the shadows of message-board or (e-)zine anonymity. Now, when a record you and your friends don’t like comes out, you just shit on it in a group chat and ignore it publicly until it goes away.
CTM: Ambrose, you wrote earlier that “Story Time” sounds like the sort of fun faux-fiction tale of the cyclical nature of hardcore that it is and so on and so forth. This is a very interesting topic, so please let us know more about this issue. What do you mean by the cyclical nature of hardcore? Dylan, I would love to know your opinion too.
Ambrose: I always thought it was super obvious, I don’t know. It’s all in the lyrics! “Story Time” is about a kid who didn’t know who he was and could have taken a bad route but “someone showed him something that blew his mind, that’s when he found his kind.” Everyone’s coming of age in hardcore story is probably pretty similar. Later, the kid grows up, doing everything the “right way” (for the subculture) and started to doubt his involvement until he meets a younger kid and “could see in those eyes what almost died” in him. A disillusionment with the mainstream world causing a connection to an outsider culture and then an eventual disillusionment with the outsider culture that saved you, but a reminder of it’s capabilities in the hopeful eyes of a younger kid puts you at peace. “The story never ends, it starts over again.” Related, I was having a conversation with some friends the other night about current hardcore and I’ve been thinking a lot about being 27 and how–although that’s still young in the world–in hardcore, it’s tougher to be moved by the same sort of stuff that would have moved you at 21 (or 19, or 17 or 15, etc.). So now, instead of outright loving or hating something, I think a lot about it’s merits for young kids; if a band is doing something that I think is cool or interesting or has a message or vibe or aesthetic I support, then that’s much more important than me liking their songs. Not to take away from the importance of writing good songs, but I don’t know, I’ve always been a proponent of this shit being much more than music (“…it’s a way of life!”)
Dylan: I’ve always interpreted the song to be about the cyclical nature of LIVING in that you start out, you don’t know shit and you kind of depend on other people to show you the way. Then, you get older and more experienced and suddenly YOU’RE the person people are depending on. Then, you enter new experiences and suddenly you’re the fuckin freshman again. IDK.
CTM: I’m not sure if I’ve ever talked about this. Me and my grandfather were very close. For the first few days after my grandfather died, I kept waiting for somebody to say something that made it feel better, or less painful. I just put the Planet Mental record on the turntable and play the “You never know” again and again. Honestly, this song helped me so much more than you’d think. Which Mental songs are the most important lyrically to you on the Planet Mental LP?
Dylan: I think Bad Brain. It’s a song (to me) all about not letting complacency and negativity stop you from creating. For me, when I’m not making art, I am miserable. I get really depressed. I 100% vibe with those lyrics.
Ambrose: Honestly, “Earthlings” is probably the most relatable to me lyrically. I feel like I’ve spent my whole life watching other human beings trying to learn how to be a human being but knew all along that those versions of human being-ness weren’t for me. “Don’t care about running, don’t wanna finish the race.”
CTM: There was the song featured on the Sweet Vision compilation “Get A Life”, and then there was “The Evils” on the Generations compilation.(They were on the Stab To Kill compilation and Town of Hardcore compilation too.) “Get A Life” and “The Evils” are severely underrated Mental jams, what do you think about these songs?
Ambrose: Both good songs, both definitely appropriate as comp only tracks. If I had to put them against each other, I’d pick “The Evils” because it’s the best song title (“D’Evils”) and also the lyrics are better.
Dylan: If I’m being honest, I need to revisit “the Evils” cuz I can’t even remember it. I love the breakdown in Get a Life though. I love that they wrote a new song instead of re-doing a version of an existing song already. I did an interview with Greg a while back and he told me the comp was made in one day with everyone in the studio together. To have been a fly on the wall during that recording session!
CTM: One of the best things about the Lockin’ Out compilation is that I like the Sweet Vision recordings better than the re-recorded versions. What is the best song on Sweet Vision? Why did you choose this song?
Dylan: I have changed my answer on this a bunch. In college, I really loved the SOS song, mostly because I like that noodly guitar shit at the end of the track and always feel that band came out of left field with their references and whatnot. I think a strong answer would be Jaguarz “Survival” because that breakdown is ridiculous and the lyrics are super awesome, like “what’s that noise, was it me or him?” It’s just super cool how it’s a dude’s internal monologue. Ultimately I think the RJ’s track is the best though. It just fires on every level in that it’s already a KILLER song and the best recorded version of it, the sample (which I later learned is from a workout video). It bangs.
Ambrose: The best song on the Sweet Vision comp is definitely “Feeding Time At The Zoo / Hangman’s Noose” but I say that with a hesitance. It’s a great song and the lo-fi comp version feels way better than the LP version BUT it produced two of the worst shirts ever made: the one with the noose printed on the center, right on the upper chest, in between the collar and ‘The Wrong Side’ bolded in all caps; and whatever shirt or shirts that said ‘Feeding Time Is Over’ on the back.
CTM: If you could release a Mental tribute 7 inch compilation and you can choose any 4 bands you want from old and current bands (each 1 song) which bands would it be and why?
Ambrose: With all due respect, and not to be a copout, but tribute records are the worst. I would also say that a tribute record is the antithesis of what Mental was about. To me, Mental always seemed pro-reminiscing but so anti-nostalgia.
Dylan: I’d have Power Trip do the whole Sweet Vision comp. LMAO. IDK. I really love Lockin Out, but also have not-so-fond memories of the influx of “LOC-LITE” bands who sprung up in the later 2000s doing wacky graphics and graffiti fonts and stuff, minus the clever lyrics and memorable riffs.
CTM: Me and my friends were all so excited to see them when they played Europe in 2005. Mental played all the shows with Justice which released Elephant Skin by the time. We arrived to Vienna early in the morning to catch them in Austria. We spent the day in the city center sight seeing, enjoying the variety of shopping opportunities, and chilling on the riverside. Finally, we managed to miss the complete Justice set and I still have bad dreams about it haha. Mental was sooo bad ass btw, these guys were seriously mental. What’s been the most memorable Mental show you’ve been to and why?
Ambrose: Maybe this disqualifies me from being apart of this, but I never saw Mental.
Dylan: I got to see some great ones. The standout for me was in SLC. They played with Justice and Life Long Tragedy on the Planet Mental tour (I have the flyer somewhere) and then some locals. I won’t go too into it but at that time, SLC was kind of a weird place for shows. Still kind of on that straight edge hangover from the 90’s, so basically if a band didn’t sound like Grimlock or Stigmata, they got no reaction. I’d just started college and was SO hyped up on hardcore you know, like the Posi Numbers era, and had just seen an assfull of summer shows that had blown my mind. So anyway, I’d already seen Mental on 2 different dates of this tour and the reactions had all been insane, but at SLC there was hardly any reaction. I remember being SO ANGRY that no one was moshing LOL. I just remember going crazy. Like air-guitaring through every song, just like giving them the reaction I felt they deserved. I bet everyone thought I was some junkie who’d been let in off the street. They broke up just a few months after so it was the last chance I had to see them really.
CTM: Breakbeats are drum parts—usually culled from funk, R&B records. Rap music has had its influence on hardcore for a long time, and hip-hop also had a heavy influence on Mental. The rap intro is biblical on the second demo, they made a Whodini cover on their LP, and Mental played a “8 miles” intro on their Planet Mental record release show. Do you like these elements?
Dylan: Yeah definitely. I am not as knowledgeable re: hiphop as I am many of the other subculture musics, but I used to go DL all the songs in the town of hardcore hip hop column. I loved that hip hop has kind of always been a cultural touchstone for NYHC bands, and since Mental essentially played the re-up of NYHC (via Boston) in the early 00’s it totally makes sense hip hop would be a big aesthetic factor.
Ambrose: I always thought it was so cool that Greg was a staunch proponent of current rap. There’s that interview in Town Of Hardcore where the rest of the band kinda clowns him for only being into the current stuff and he doesn’t waver in his opinion. I think that’s really cool.
CTM: Dumptruck helped create the Lockin’ Out sound with their cassette. This is basically left over early Mental tunes that were too hard, and they got one of their friends to sing on them. Do you like the Feelin’ Good demo?
Ambrose: Yeah, of course.
Dylan: Shit I LOVE this demo. I did the sickest Chris Morgado interview like 7 years ago now. We talked wrestling and illustration and Dump Truck and everything. I never published it because I’m a dumbass. But yeah, I love the Wrong Side. My fav lil nugget from that interview is hearing that Dump Truck had a song called “March of the cockroaches” and (I think) it’s what became “Feeding time at the zoo.” I could be wrong on that last bit though.
CTM: I think Mental really knew how to do record covers and record release covers right. Rasta cover, Mental Crew cover, Earth Sucks cover, Morgado covers, Sean Taggart cover etc. What do you think about their covers, what do you think of the style of their covers?
Dylan: I feel like I already covered this throughout the interview, but I always loved that Mental didn’t do “stereotypical HC artwork” for their records. For the most part, none of the LOC bands did. It wasn’t like generic youth crew live shot stuff or metalcore skulls and cursive lettering…just kind of like a visual overdose that pulled queues from tons of artists I liked. Like, you know the Look Alive cover kinda looked like Keith Haring art, or the Rage of Discipline LP looked like one of those generic DJ sleeves. That shit always made you wonder what the tunes contained within sounded like, you know? Yeah, I will always love the fact that Mental’s covers were unique.
Ambrose: And You Know This cover is a little crude and juvenile, Get An Oxygen Tank is cleaner, more pro, features art by an OG. Yo! is far from subdued but it’s a step down from the colorfulness of GAOT, and then Planet Mental is muted and more abstract. Every record cover tells you so much about the record. As far as the special covers, I’ve always been partial to ‘Earth Sucks’. I know it’s simple, but sometimes simple’s the best.
CTM: My personal favourite cover is probably the Mental cat cover of the Bum Rush EP. Why did they change the artwork, what do you think?
Ambrose: Honestly, no idea. Love the cat’s slippers.
Dylan: I never really got the story, and I’ve asked! No idea. That is a good cover. I remember when it was making the rounds on the internet though!
CTM: Thanks for the interview guys! Finally, what are your fave Mental t-shirt designs?
Dylan: The Pam Grier shirt is the only right answer.
Ambrose: On Instagram the other day, this woman I know posted a picture of her in a white longsleeve with the word ‘Mental’ like repeatedly stamped and then stamped over it with a sort of white border was a red or orange ‘Mental’ in the same font as the blue, and I think that might win. Need that shirt. Prior to seeing that one though, my favorite was definitely the black Elephant shirt. They didn’t make many black shirts, so that one feels special. Also, in the market for the Mental / Desperate Measures ‘Lock Up Your Daughters’ tour shirt too. That one couldn’t really fly in the modern era. The only Mental shirt that I currently have is the yellow one with the gorilla on the front and the back. I’ve worn it out a total of one time because I’m not quite confident in that yellow. The Pam Grier one is obviously great, but I can’t wear that in public. Before we exit, next time we gotta talk about the Yo 7″. “Bootleg” are my favorite Mental lyrics; “They cared, I care, you should care.” Incredible.
An in-depth analysis of the history of Mental, interview with Ambrose Nzams and Dylan Chadwick / Part I.
This interview originally published in Chiller Than Most fanzine, issue 5 (2017). Pics by Lockin Out fanzine, Al Quint, Start Today fanzine, Chiller Than Most fanzine.
CTM: Yo yo yo you know who this is, this is Chiller Than Most zine and we are doing a special interview about Mental right now! Could you please introduce yourself to the readers? How was your first time meeting Mental? Was it love at first sight?
Ambrose: My name is Ambrose Nzams and I live in Washington, DC. I was 13 years old when Get An Oxygen Tank came out but I didn’t hear it in full until a couple years later. At the time, I don’t think I would have really got it and actually, even when I eventually heard it, I didn’t really get it. However, a year after Get An Oxygen Tank came out, I’d started going to shows regularly and Righteous Jams had put out Rage Of Discipline. I loved that record immediately. I remember at the time, a lot of the older guys I knew didn’t care much for it, they would always just say that Mental was better. It was only much later that I realized how quietly polarizing Righteous Jams were because of certain affiliations, etc. I checked out Mental on the suggestion of my elders and thought it was cool, but it didn’t stick with me. A year after that, my friend Gary ordered a momentarily popular record that will remain unnamed from Deathwish, with it they sent him the GAOT CD for free. He got into it and I still couldn’t really get down. It honestly wasn’t until I heard the WERS set for it all to sink in. I never got a chance to see them, so that recording gave me the perspective that was missing, that was what it took.
Dylan: My name is Dylan. I’m an illustrator. I was first introduced to Mental in early 2004. It was definitely love at first sight, because I loved their artwork! I was a big fan of the artist who did the Yo! 7” (and eventually Planet Mental), but also when Get an Oxygen Tank! came out, the artwork was just so busy and cartoony and mind-blowing. I didn’t really know much about Sean Taggart at that point, but immediately felt a kinship because the art was just really unique and felt more in-tune with the kind of stuff I was drawing in my notebooks at school. All their album covers were great honestly.
CTM: I think their most important impact was that they changed people’s thinking about hardcore, Mental made hardcore fun again. They created a whole new generation of hardcore kids. I don’t think I’m the only one, a lot of people got fed up with American Nightmare, The Suicide File, Panic and the likes really fast, the constant moaning and bloody knives, razorblades. The whole attitude surrounding these bands was just not my thing. If someone is into that stuff, no big deal, I just find it boring. A lot of bands at that time had the dramatic black hair and a really miserable vibe. And then, out of nowhere came Lockin’ Out Records, first with the first Mental record. What is your opinion on this topic? How do you evaluate the work of Mental?
Dylan: Yeah, this describes me too. I liked a few of the bands you mentioned, but always felt like they weren’t “mine” almost like they belonged to the preceding generation a little bit. Mental spoke to me in the same way that like skateboard graphics and comics spoke to me. The presentation was fresh and inspired me to make more art. I think that’s probably the best barometer for a band you can give. The other thing I really liked about Mental and the LOC scene, is that people all had to have like a polarizing opinion about them. They were criticized for the way they moshed or for wearing Nikes or whatever, and when you’re a young kid who’s first starting to understand how HC “works” I just couldn’t relate to a lot of that “heat” they were getting, both good and bad.
Ambrose: Tides gotta shift and anything worthwhile is a response to the things going on around it. Think about the 1-25-03 show: Think I Care, Stop And Think, Mental opening up for American Nightmare and The Suicide File; the first official day of Lockin’ Out Records. Joey C. intros Mental then dives; the band goes directly into an unreleased NYC Mayhem/Straight Ahead intro, then covers Invasion as all their friends mosh. I wasn’t there, so I can’t attest to the energy, but I can’t think of a better example of the ushering in of a new guard. When the baton gets snatched from the previous generation by a newer generation, it’s usually just an attempt to rekindle the feelings the younger generation felt when everything was new. This could be a total misreading but I always partially credited Floorpunch for the ethos of Mental (“Tolerate”, “Stick Together”, being NYHC-centric, etc). I always hypothesized that because the guys in Mental came up on Floorpunch, and hardcore had returned to self-seriousness over time, that they were just trying to bring that feeling back (ala FP & late 80’s NYHC). With that said, the most important part is that Mental rekindled but never rehashed; they were modern, more obscure, more fun and distinct.
CTM: As far as I know their main goal for starting a band was to cover “Back to back” by Underdog. They loved Underdog and Supertouch, no band in the 00’s ripped off NYHC like Mental ripped off NYHC. The Underdog and Supertouch influence wasn’t really prevalent in the scene until Mental crew started pushing it hard and bringing it to everyone’s attention. What musical effect did they really have on hardcore music?
Ambrose: If we’re only talking musical influence, I guess Justice and the lower tier Lockin’ Out bands (Jaguarz, Crunch Time, etc.) would be like direct disciples of Mental’s sound. And the phrase “Lockin’ Out style” became kind of a popular self-described classification in the first couple years of this decade. Also, the amount they knew about and took influence from–NYHC demos, WNYU sets, and live videos (in the AOL era!)–was super impressive and absolutely laid the foundation for what was to a decade later be dubbed “democore”. I might be looking at the generation before me with rose-colored glasses, but to me, Mental’s influence lies mostly in the community they were able to build. It might be giving them too much credit, but it was like they had a network of friends all over (mainly Boston, Texas, Detroit, Wilkes-Barre and Belgium) that they inspired; promoting individuality and never hesitating to big them up.
Dylan: I can’t speak for anyone else but I know that Mental is how I first heard Supertouch. They’re probably the reason I know Underdog too. Checks out for me.
CTM: So many people said so much dumb shit about Mental. They are too jokey, they only focus on merch and being goofy, Mental is not a serious band etc. Why did people think this way?
Dylan: I think that when a band comes around that gets some hype, it’s natural for “detractors” to spring up. It’s that contrarian thing, like for people who can’t form an opinion about something unless it becomes popular, they just decide to criticize the “fanbase.” I think most of the criticisms lobbied at Mental and LOC generally were unfounded in reality, and probably influenced by jealousy! I totally remember this though. Like, imagine being such a miserable fucker that when a cool band like Mental “hits” you have to try and find reasons not to like them, but I guess it will always happen for bands that are ahead of their time.
Ambrose: It really hit me kind of recently that most people only take things (art, people, ideas, etc.) at face value and run with their–usually someone else’s–superficial summation. It’s super disheartening, but also, I can’t tell anyone what to do with their time. And honestly, there’s really nothing worse than looking deep into something (art, people, ideas, etc.) and finding nothing there. Sometimes things are just what they seem and not much more.
I’ve gone to bat for Mental so many times because the popular consensus of them is unfair. To call them “goofy” is to miss the mark. I always guessed most people thought this because Greg is lanky, they prioritized friends and fun, and all of their merch was colorful. It almost hurts worse when the people that simplify Mental are supposed fans, like just because it can be lighthearted doesn’t mean it’s slapstick. There are so many styles of expression in hardcore–and maybe this is controversial–but to me, most of them are valid and worth at least knowing about, so I don’t like the declaration of what HC should or shouldn’t be. Nonetheless, something about Mental feels totally pure in it’s delivery. It’s still juvenile enough to openly care but also not so self-important as to act as if they’re changing the world. (“It’s not about preaching to hear yourself talk…”)
CTM: “And you know this”. This quote came from the movie “Friday”. The film details roughly 16 hours in the lives of unemployed Craig Jones (Cube) and Smokey (Tucker), who must pay a drug dealer $200 by 10:00 p.m. that night. At the end of the movie, Smokey looks up, lights a joint and saying to the audience, “I was just bullshittin’! And you know this, mannn!” Right, why do you like this 7 inch?
Ambrose: It’s like “Party And Bullshit” or the Filler 7″ or any other perfect introduction. It sets the foundation for every idea they’ll further and then later reflect on. The entire thing is a mission statement and every song is relatable.
Dylan: The cover is fantastic. That stipple work is insane. The “Baked Not Fried” thing in the insert. It’s LOC #1, pre-logo. Luv it.
CTM: “Chock full of breakdowns…, you will need to get an oxygen tank to remain a functioning human being… All in all, this is a record that will change how bands write songs in the future.” Please share your thoughts on the “Get An Oxygen Tank” record.
Dylan: These aren’t my fav Mental tunes, but only because there’s such a high caliber around everything else. I love everything about the cover. The fact that purple was such a heavily utilized color. This album was a big hit in my friend circle, prob cuz I think they did the CD with B9 (?) and (people will act like they’re too cool to remember this but fuck ‘em) around the time of this release AP Magazine did a piece on “modern hardcore.” Most of the bands they covered were kinda dorky like Casey Jones but I distinctly remember Get an Oxygen Tank and Rage of Discipline getting included in that list of “albums you gotta check out!” But yeah, I remember a lot of people who wouldn’t normally fuck with “that type of hardcore” having opinions on that album.
Ambrose: It’s not my favorite Mental record, but it might be the most “defining”. I feel like Get An Oxygen Tank is the record everyone thinks of when they think about Mental. It’s like Ice Grillz and the second Stop And Think demo for 2000s band-defining moments. Ironically, Get An Oxygen Tank, Ice Grillz, and the second Stop And Think demo were all issued in collections with the second, more prominent release first in the tracklisting.
CTM: This is a stolen question from “It Runs Deep” fanzine. The song “Growing pains” deals with getting older and not fitting in out there in the “real” world or “growing up”… Do you find it hard to relate to people who don’t have anything to do with hardcore? What do you think about the lyrics of “Growing pains”?
Ambrose: I live and breathe: “I honestly hate the average man / his life is shit to me.” It’s kind of wild how no matter how much I have otherwise in common or can have a good conversation with somebody, I always feel like we’re missing an important bond if they aren’t into, or don’t understand, punk or hardcore. That’s not to say that I inherently get along with everyone who does, but there’s something specific that comes with being hardcore, maybe it’s a certain kind of cynicism or maybe it’s just that it’s a culture of it’s own and it’s always easier to speak to someone in your own language.
I feel “Growing Pains” every day. I thought there might be a point where I stopped being bummed when people sold out in some way, but I don’t think I ever will. And although this song features a word that I wouldn’t particularly use–and that might not fly in the modern world–I can’t say I never feel this exact way when it seems like “no one [takes] this shit for real.”
Dylan: Honestly, yeah I do. I was at a dinner party with a few friends, all of whom were people I had met from being involved with HC and at some point someone used the term “normie” to describe someone else. Another person at the table got a little bit upset, mostly because he felt the term “normie” was reductive. I don’t think I agree with him, and started to talk about all the unspoken things you don’t have to explain to someone else when you know they’re “hardcore” or whatever. Maybe this is a bad example, but yeah. I consider myself fairly “uninvolved” in HC in terms of making music and going to shows and stuff, but it’s still the well from which I’ve made all my friends. It’s still how I stay creative. I have been doing a lot of artwork in the world of independent wrestling and it’s amazing how many ex punk/HC people I meet. As soon as I find out someone grew up going to shows or was straight edge, I feel like there’s a higher chance I’ll become friends with them than not. I met one of my best friends Jeff in college. He was wearing an America’s HC shirt. IDK, I just walked up to him and said “cool shirt.” and we just immediately became friends. I don’t know another subculture quite liek that.
CTM: “Get off your couch, run around your house like an idiot!” WERS set is a fantastic representation of how great they were live. What do you think about their radio set at WERS? Dylan, I know that you drew a really awesome design for your cassette!
Dylan: I love it! Yeah, absolutely man that live set rules. It’s so funny, the intro is hot, they sound tight. I had a homemade copy of this that I made for myself in high school. When I was a senior, I had already been accepted into college, but hadn’t turned 18 yet so I was legally bound to go to school even if it really didn’t matter what grades I made. As a result, I spent a LOT of time making a zine and drawing. That homemade WERS cover was just one of the many projects I fucked around with in study hall. I sometimes wonder if the girl I was dating back then had ANY idea what the hell I was on about making these tapes. I remember playing it for her in my car and her response was “OMG are they just like playing this in a room with their friends?” The concept of “live set” in anything that wasn’t a stadium was more than she could handle!
Ambrose: Not even trying to be super hyperbolic, and I fear how corny I’m being, but it’s honestly beautiful. This recording turned me into a Mental fan. The crew introductions; “keep the spirit of music alive;” all of it feels so right. I could ramble more about this but I remember the first time I heard this; I was hooked, it made me want to do a band. I also can’t lie and say that the introductions didn’t make me super envious of their crew, I wanted to figure out who everyone mentioned was.
CTM: It’s hard to believe it has been 12 years since the criminally underrated Planet Mental record was released. It seems that around this time Mental changed into some more rockish, more Supertouch and Quicksand influenced. To me however, Mental always seemed to evolve and try new things, and this wax was definitely a breath of fresh air. They were playing a completely different style than what was popular in the mid 2000’s, they were a little weird from the typical hardcore formulas. What do you think about this LP, and how important was this album to hardcore?
Ambrose: I don’t know how important this record was for hardcore as a whole, really. I think it was overshadowed by the “Mental Broke Edge?!” Bridge Nine board proto-meme and by people treating it like it was a fall from grace. I’ve written about this before but lyrically, this is the best Mental record. The vulnerability feels real; it was much less coded than it’s influences. Mental wore everything on their sleeve always and that’s what makes them so special.
Dylan: I really like this LP. I know this is a dorky comparison point but I can remember in the months before it came out hanging out with my friends and just talking music, listening to records you know and I remember one of them saying “the next Mental album is going to be a full length LP and it’s going to be called “Planet Mental.” I think he read it on B9 or maybe even Myspace (LOL!) I immediately loved the title of the record and was excited they’d be doing a full length. I remember trying to picture what the record cover would look like. If I can be honest, I don’t really feel like this album made a tremendous impact. I loved it, I remember it getting some acclaim, but I feel like they broke up so soon afterwards that the album got overshadowed by it? I just don’t remember it getting the attention that GAOT did (again this could just have been my experience).